The majority of the community sucks (or does it?)

[Gigashadow]

Originally Posted by Improvavel

If I use a god mode that also has a weapon that deals 10 billion damage to finish all the PvE content, farm all the skins and titles I want, exactly how will this affect your game or the health of GW as a game?

Since it's a multiplayer game, and you can see other players, everyone else will feel any armor/titles/miscellaneous achievements etc. they were spent a lot of effort achieving, have been devalued. You can deny it all you want, but people compare themselves to others, both in computer games and in real life. If anyone, including yourself, can get absolutely anything they desire so trivially, the perceived value of those things will plummet to zero, people will see no point in playing, and will leave in droves.

"The harder to get, the better to have."

[Bryant Again]

Originally Posted by Improvavel

I already told you, titles have no relation to skill. You state that yourself.

If it isn't a relation to skill it isn't an award for skill. In my view is a check list of stuff to do.

Okay, then.

That doesn't excuse that there are a thousand other paths ANet could've taken in making it easier for you to get those titles.

They could've simply given you the titles in normal mode as well. Hell it would've been better to simply give you the titles as soon as you long in.

But nope! Instead they dumbed down their entire PvE game drastically, further isolating players from knowing what the *%#@ they're doing, making the transition into PvP that more shitty.

Every other good developer is, yes, giving you that opportunity to play as stupid as you want. But they make walls, ANet doesn't.

Originally Posted by Improvavel

I'm sorry, but that is what PC RPG are - you develop a character and then keep getting more levels, more items, more skills/spells/attributes to make the game easier.

Hahaha, yeah - so you have a less harder time transitioning into the harder areas where you can get better loot!!!

What happens in "ALL DOSE RPGEE'S" is you get better loot because the monsters get better loot. In Guild Wars, only *one side* is getting "better".

But what Guild Wars does is give you that "high-end power" before you even start to "level" yourself, via consets and PvE skills. So you've just proved it's even worse than an RPG. High-five!

Originally Posted by Improvavel

So, in my point of view everyone can see the game content. In your point of view, only some that fill some kind of criteria that isn't disclosed neither is known who is the person or group of persons that will decide that criteria.

Why can't you read my posts?

Here you go, in the most Laymen of terms I can hope to create:

This is what makes sense:
-Providing an easy mode, with access to all of the content
-Providing a normal mode, with access to all of the content but slightly harder
-Providing a harder mode, with access to all of the content but slightly harder

Here's what you don't see happen from good developers:
-Make that normal mode *as easy* as the easy mode
-Make that hard mode *as easy* as the easy mode
-Make that easy mode 10 times easier

The above would be understandable if there were unlockables obtained from the more difficult settings that drastically changed your gameplay.

But there is NOTHING like that in Guild Wars.

Hence, all these changes - PvE skills and consumables - are retarded.

Originally Posted by Improvavel

Where is the criteria to be considered good in the game?

When there's a mandatory skill threshold for the hardest settings.

Originally Posted by Improvavel

All I'm saying is that the threshold in lowered because you are stuck in dummie Mode, called PvE.

No. The threshold is lowered via PvE skills and consumables.
The threshold is lowered via PvE skills and consumables.
The threshold is lowered via PvE skills and consumables.

Hammer this into your head, dude: the skill level of ALL PLAYERS IN PVE has been DRASTICALLY lowered. You cannot deny that everything now takes far less effort to complete.

Before I'm done, I want you to go through my posts and count the number of times I stated "I don't care about the rewards".

Got it? Good, now you can stop saying stupid crap like this:

Originally Posted by Improvavel

So, you are telling me the only way you will accept challenges is if you get a reward for it. Yes?

Thank you.

[DreamWind]

Originally Posted by Improvavel

Non competitive gaming like GW PvE is a nice place to have this mindset - its an escape from reality.

That is fine...unless your escape from reality ruins the escape from reality experience of other people.

Originally Posted by Improvavel

The competition portion certainly isn't. The cooperating are is a different animal.

So you are saying the cooperating part should have no challenge or skill whatsoever? I doubt many will agree with you on that.

Originally Posted by Improvavel

I guess it isn't only determined by my skill when I'm playing in a team is it?

Individual skill, team skill, guild skill, etc etc. All that matters should be skill is the determining factor in your choice of how to play the game. If it isn't, then Anet is definately at fault.

Originally Posted by Improvavel

If it isn't affecting my game, I don't see why it should be affecting someone else game.

Having inbalanced stuff in the game absolutely affects my game because I'm not a "don't like it don't use it" type of player. I use the best tools available, and if the best tools make the game easy that affects my game.

Originally Posted by Improvavel

If I use a god mode that also has a weapon that deals 10 billion damage to finish all the PvE content, farm all the skins and titles I want, exactly how will this affect your game or the health of GW as a game?

This to me is the root of your problem. I doubt anybody agrees with you about this. If you honestly believe this then I don't know what to say. I'm sure there are many people here who will tell you why this is a problem because I am getting really tired of typing. It absolutely would affect the health of the game...just as things in the game currently are just to a lesser extent. When you realize this we can talk again.

[Master Fuhon]

Originally Posted by Improvavel

If I use a god mode that also has a weapon that deals 10 billion damage to finish all the PvE content, farm all the skins and titles I want, exactly how will this affect your game or the health of GW as a game?

I answered your question in post #612. Playing the game in that manner would train you towards moving directly from having an impulse to responding on that impulse. At which point, I would be highly concerned with how you respond to any of your impulses when dealing with other people. I share common zones in game with you, a forum, and less specifically a planet. That kind of impulse training only benefits innocent or very mature people.

As for the rest of the population, they are very sloppy in regulating their poor behavior, and within a short time period they will be infringing on the enjoyment of other people within the game. Historically, the human species has thrived by making the world a difficult place to be a hostile person, not because all people are so genuinely nice. Game health, as well as world health, had always been achieved by letting those who seek to destroy everything fail under those kinds of whims. In an easy game, there is no collective strong enough to regulate those beliefs; in effect, there is no way to deal with those who seek to destroy the game because they are shielded from their flaws.

If you ask me what that guy using the 10 million damage attacks with all weapon and armor skins needs, he needs a good AI beat-down to know what his place really is, to teach him how competent he is in reality.

[Bryant Again]

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Having inbalanced stuff in the game absolutely affects my game because I'm not a "don't like it don't use it" type of player. I use the best tools available, and if the best tools make the game easy that affects my game.

That's what a good challenge is: Having to give it your best and while *using* the best you can find.

When you have to shelve some of those things, what using the best erases from the challenge, when you have to not do it to your best abilities, it just proves what you're doing is not difficult. Players don't like having to bring challenge upon themselves.

[Bryant Again]

Originally Posted by Gun Pierson

The evidence is they changed direction. And they did it for a reason. Anet is a company in a real world. Something wasn't working out that well in the original idea. So yeah even if it was their original idea, so what? The world changes, people change, games change.

Anet made a product and improved the product. Sales numbers speak for themselves even till this day. So they must have been doing something good.

So when was the last time you developed a coprpg with a team of 100 specialists and sold over 5 million copies? If Anet was going down the drain I would be more sceptical about it, but they aren't, they even expanded their work force to 200 peeps. They know their sh1t.

You're not the only one playing this game. You can have your own opinion on things ofcourse and it mustn't be fun for you. But hey I want 7 heroes and I will not have them either. We can't have it all and Anet is in charge and they do know what lives amongst the playerbase and the communities.

To which I direct you to my previous post.

Argh, guru is annoying (ps: that wasn't me saying "GOSH you're annoying!", rather that the edit button works half the time.)

[kostolomac]

Originally Posted by DreamWind

Having inbalanced stuff in the game absolutely affects my game because I'm not a "don't like it don't use it" type of player. I use the best tools available, and if the best tools make the game easy that affects my game.

So you want to make the game harder for everyone and that's not affecting everyone's game? You want to impose your way to everyone, and criticize someone who wants to do the same?

I don't really have a problem with a game being easy, if it's too easy I don't play it, or play a more difficult mode, and thankfully GW is still difficult if you press 'm' and travel to the isles of the zaishen. Even RA is more challenging than HM without pve skills and cons will ever be and will teach you a lot more. I have yet to see a game with both a pve and pvp mode where you learn more, become better and are continuously challenged by playing pve instead of pvp.

[Rocky Raccoon]

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

To which I direct you to my previous post.

Argh, guru is annoying.

Basically you are telling us most people suck at the game except for a minority of good players who know what is best for the game and everyone else. To me that is annoying.

[Bryant Again]

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

Basically you are telling us most people suck at the game except for a minority of good players who know what is best for the game and everyone else. To me that is annoying.

This is undeniable: for the best input developer's look for the best players. Every single game out there has a minority of players that know a lot about the game, but not all know what's best for it. Only stubborn players who don't have harmful interests for the game should be getting the stick. Newcomers need to be welcomed, too.

Most players are inexperienced and are largely unaware of what's going on in the game. This much is true. What you don't do is you cater solely to that. You try to appeal to both extremes of the playerbase.

If you just want to jump in and have fun while not maintaining a whole lot of experience in the game, that's totally fine. But that shouldn't come at consequence to someone who wants to find more depth to their game.

Unfortunately, that's what's happened with Guild Wars.

[Age]

I am surprised at how many play Perfect World really well and go out of thier way to help others.You don't hear the type of language on the servers over there as yoyu do in GW servers.It feesl as if I am playing with grown adults wh don't swear.beg and whine for nothing.

They even know how to play thier classes very well and high levels helping out in low lvl dungeon missions to pass on to your next 10 levels called cultivation lvls.

I would say it is because of all the short cuts players can take in this game.They don't play it fully through and use runners way more.

[kostolomac]

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

If you just want to jump in and have fun while not maintaining a whole lot of experience in the game, that's totally fine. But that shouldn't come at consequence to someone who wants to find more depth to their game.

Unfortunately, that's what's happened with Guild Wars.

Guild Wars still has depth, a lot, but not in pve, and pve never had any real depth to begin with after you beat all the missions.

[Bryant Again]

Originally Posted by kostolomac

Guild Wars still has depth, a lot, but not in pve, and pve never had any real depth to begin with after you beat all the missions.

Regardless of how much it had to begin with, now it has even *less*. There's no reason anyone would want to do that.

[Rocky Raccoon]

Originally Posted by Age

I am surprised at how many play Perfect World really well and go out of their way to help others.You don't hear the type of language on the servers over there as you do in GW servers.It feesl as if I am playing with grown adults wh don't swear.beg and whine for nothing.

They even know how to play thier classes very well and high levels helping out in low lvl dungeon missions to pass on to your next 10 levels called cultivation lvls.

I would say it is because of all the short cuts players can take in this game.They don't play it fully through and use runners way more.

I have to agree with you. I just started to dabble with PW and have had much of the same experience. The only thing I find unnerving is the getting married thing, kind of creeps me out.

[al_capowned]

I will preface this post with the knowledge that I haven't played this game in over 2 years. I was a beta tester for the original release. And finally that I was an avid PvPer.

The major problem with this game, and thus the progression from PvE to PvP, is the actual players themselves. Guild Wars was originally designed to be a PvP game that incorporated a PvE element as an introduction to 'how to play this game'. The real metagame doesn't start until after you have completed the PvE campaign. However, this wasn't enough for the hardcore PvEer(who purchased the wrong game in the first place) so ArenaNet decided to lean more heavily on the PvE side to appease their fanbase.

You can't blame ArenaNet for making the changes they did to make the PvE community happy, but you can blame the community for ruining a quality game. Guild Wars is not WoW or Silk Road or Neverwinter Nights, or (insert awful grindfest game here)...unfortunately the community forced Anets hand in making it one. And thus you are left with a terrible bastardized version of the developers original intent with no congruity or learning curve between the awful PvE and PvP.

just my opinion

[snaek]

Originally Posted by kostolomac

So you want to make the game harder for everyone and that's not affecting everyone's game? You want to impose your way to everyone, and criticize someone who wants to do the same?

no, its not like that at all. i've already stated this many times, we simply want balance.
this includes both nerfing and buffing.

ideally, we want:
- easy areas to be easy
- normal areas to be normal
- hard areas to be hard

i.e. a place for everyone to play.
not easy across the whole board, as bryant again stated numerous times in this thread.
we're not rejecting lesser skilled players from playing hard areas; we're inviting them to increase their skill if they choose to partake in the challenge.

Originally Posted by al_capowned

You can't blame ArenaNet for making the changes they did to make the PvE community happy, but you can blame the community for ruining a quality game ... unfortunately the community forced Anets hand in making it one.

why cant i blame anet for selling out?
no one forced anet to do anything, they simply saw an opportunity to make money, and they decided to take it.
even so, there are numerous options that would have worked at keeping the 'pve community happy' without 'ruining a quality game.'

[Rocky Raccoon]

Originally Posted by snaek

why cant i blame anet for selling out?
no one forced anet to do anything, they simply saw an opportunity to make money, and they decided to take it.
even so, there are numerous options that would have worked at keeping the 'pve community happy' without 'ruining a quality game.'

A company is in business to make money? Well I guess ANET said we can make a nice little PvP game that will attract a limited amount of customers and it won't make a lot of money; or we can change what we started out to do and a make a bunch more money with the PvE people. Seems to me it's a no brainer if you want to stay in business, you go where the money is. Perhaps now you can see the reason for a whole new game that will try to incorporate the best of both, here's hoping they can pull it off.

[al_capowned]

Originally Posted by Risky Ranger

A company is in business to make money? Well I guess ANET said we can make a nice little PvP game that will attract a limited amount of customers and it won't make a lot of money; or we can change what we started out to do and a make a bunch more money with the PvE people. Seems to me it's a no brainer if you want to stay in business, you go where the money is. Perhaps now you can see the reason for a whole new game that will try to incorporate the best of both, here's hoping they can pull it off.

Personally I don't think they will. I will of course purchase the game and support Anet. I see GW2 having a very distinct WoW feeling. That's what PvE players want and let's face it PvE players are paying the bills for this company. Anet hit PvP perfectly the first time around. Were some of the skills unbalanced...absoultely. But I distinctly remember the first couple of rounds of nerfs/buffs way back when the game came out as being recieved with admiration and support from the PvP community. Of course the PvE community screamed about how they're "uber builds" could no longer solo this area or that area. But the game play was solid both PvE and PvP and I remember 15-20 districts being full EVERYWHERE! I logged in a couple of days ago for the first time in over 2 years and my entire guild is inactive.(I guess we really are Pros at Inactivity!) Of the 300 or so people I met playing GW, and played with often, only a small handful (5 or 6) still play...there's a reason for that.

[Improvavel]

Originally Posted by Gigashadow

Since it's a multiplayer game, and you can see other players, everyone else will feel any armor/titles/miscellaneous achievements etc. they were spent a lot of effort achieving, have been devalued. You can deny it all you want, but people compare themselves to others, both in computer games and in real life. If anyone, including yourself, can get absolutely anything they desire so trivially, the perceived value of those things will plummet to zero, people will see no point in playing, and will leave in droves.

"The harder to get, the better to have."

To the op - this is why the community sucks - they are children.

And if they see too many people having the titles they have, they cry and whine.

Any intelligent person knows that in a non changing world like guild wars more and more people will attain those titles.

The balance people talk in here is nothing more than "Too many people are at the high end. We cannot have that because I dona 't feel special anymore".

I bet Anet only heard the top GvG players in concerns to GvG. People still complain that GvG is much worse today than it was before.

Originally Posted by Snake

no, its not like that at all. i've already stated this many times, we simply want balance.
this includes both nerfing and buffing.

ideally, we want:
- easy areas to be easy
- normal areas to be normal
- hard areas to be hard

But you are talking as a veteran.

No player start with consumables. No player start with PvE-only skills.

Actually, before you had to grind more for your PvE-only skills to be effective.
But no, that is against the skill>time.

But then people whine because people don't need to work for their stuff and is so much easier now.

Whine whine whine.

Ursan was bad - nerf it nerf it.

Ursan was nerfed. But Anet only listen to the noobies that don't want any challenge.

Now, 2 years later, the guildwarsguru community decides all the evils of gw is cry of pain, even though cry of pain exists in the exact same state for 2 years. It actually existed before ursan.


I wished they had labeled Normal Mode - idiot mode and Hard Mode - Not too idiot mode.

Then relabeled all the Missions to Idiot mission and all the Elite missions - Bigger idiot missions.

Then all people could be happy.

[Reverend Dr]

There are a lot of people that are playing multiplayer online games that should reevaluate why they are playing multiplayer games to begin with. This is not to insult anyone, but these people are the type that because of their attitude towards the game and the attitude towards others in the game, are going to have more satisfying time playing a single player game.

For instance, I enjoy RPG's, but if you add the MMO to them I enjoy them far less. As such I tend to only play single player RPG's. I stick with GW because of the PvP, had it not been for that I would have quit bac in 2005.

@Risky Anet originally had the attention of the competitive gamer crowd. This is by now means a "limited amount of customers." Starcraft, Warcraft, Counterstrike, Halo, TF2 are all very profitable games that are supported by that crowd. While the numbers in the MMORPG crowd aren't enough to support competitive games, there are other gaming markets. The worst blow that sent most of these players away happened on release day. In the betas everybody had everything unlocked, such that they could beta test; then release day came and everyone had to play PvE to unlock stuff. The competitive crowd up and left, they did not come to play an MMORPG.

Anet had a large crowd interested in the PvP, but they blew their chance. After that marketing failed, then they reached back to the PvE crowd. Now perhaps you can see why many of the old PvP players feel so backstabbed by Anet.

[Improvavel]

Originally Posted by Reverend Dr

There are a lot of people that are playing multiplayer online games that should reevaluate why they are playing multiplayer games to begin with. This is not to insult anyone, but these people are the type that because of their attitude towards the game and the attitude towards others in the game, are going to have more satisfying time playing a single player game.

For instance, I enjoy RPG's, but if you add the MMO to them I enjoy them far less. As such I tend to only play single player RPG's. I stick with GW because of the PvP, had it not been for that I would have quit bac in 2005.

@Risky Anet originally had the attention of the competitive gamer crowd. This is by now means a "limited amount of customers." Starcraft, Warcraft, Counterstrike, Halo, TF2 are all very profitable games that are supported by that crowd. While the numbers in the MMORPG crowd aren't enough to support competitive games, there are other gaming markets. The worst blow that sent most of these players away happened on release day. In the betas everybody had everything unlocked, such that they could beta test; then release day came and everyone had to play PvE to unlock stuff. The competitive crowd up and left, they did not come to play an MMORPG.

Anet had a large crowd interested in the PvP, but they blew their chance. After that marketing failed, then they reached back to the PvE crowd. Now perhaps you can see why many of the old PvP players feel so backstabbed by Anet.

Still what you hear is people wishing to make PvE and PvP more intermingled, wishing to make the transition between PvE and PvP "less shitty".

I did like 10 skirmishes against the AI before going online playing WC3 PvP. WC3 is one of the games that consumed more of my time and I've never finished a single PvE campaign.

PvE and PvP crowds are mostly different. Those that seem disappointed with GW seem to be those that wished PvE was more like PvP.